Bible Students

this episode we have special guest Zach Summers the worship director at Crossroads church today he’s going to be talking about what it looks like for him to live as a great commissioned Christian so Zach why don’t you start by talking about your background a bit Yeah so uh I grew up as a I was a pastor’s kid growing up um big adoptive family have nine adopted siblings um yeah I’m I’m a story of like many of the the Pharisees knew a lot about the Bible um struck by Jesus words you know the scriptures but you refused to come to me to have eternal life um grew up knowing a lot about Jesus but not really knowing Jesus until uh kind of the very end of high school um God got a hold my heart and then through a series of kind of God things and Friends uh yeah I came to Bible College and uh attended calary Chapel Bible College um where I I really fell in love with God and His word um for the first time um and then I attended Calvary Chapel Bible College uh started in 2017 um and over the course of the next four and a half years um got my bachelor’s in biblical studies at calary Chapel Bible College awesome um yeah so let’s see when you were at calary chap Bible College um did you do any internships or anything like that yeah um in the middle of that section after I finished my AA in biblical studies in two years and then uh after after that I interned at the college actually um as the worship Ministry intern and then that was ended by covid in 2020 and then I interned at Calvary Chapel Vista um in north San Diego County um let’s see at the end of 2020 into 2021 and then uh after that I a couple Summers back home working at uh working uh manual labor job uh for a stonemason uh and then I was on staff at calary Chapel Vista in 2020 2023 and then um just recently joined staff at Crossroads Church in Buon California at the beginning of 2024 right um so tell me about your time in Bible College what was that like um where were you able to to grow yeah uh Bible College was huge for me uh I grew up in a small town um and so um I think a lot of times I wanted to have some some of that Christian Community I mean there was Christian Community but not a large sloth of people who were really interested in Jesus which is maybe why it was hard for me to follow Jesus as a kid growing up um but Bible College gave me uh you know community and um I think the biggest thing for me was that there was just a freedom and so much time given to me to in the word and to study and to talk about um you know to talk about Jesus not and not with you know my dad or my uh mom or like people who really wanted to to get into the word which was really really huge and then honestly um like anything um I think one of the biggest things was the relationships that I built over my four or five years of Bible College um you know there’s a lot of classes that you attend at college that you learn good stuff and but you forget a lot of it but it’s the people that really came out at the end of the day absolutely um so tell me about your uh worship internship at the college what were you able to to learn through that yeah that was huge um during my my last year of my associates so my second year at Babble College um I was discipled by a guy named John E zako who was the director of worship and at the Bible College at the time and then he asked me at the end of my second year if I would like to become intern so I interned my third year um yeah Johnny Johnny is one of the reasons that I am the worship leader that I am today um I’ve been leading worship since before I love Jesus but uh funnily enough but uh Johnny really invested a ton in me a lot of the Practical side of that was helping with um with building sets and being on the worship team every week and then helping organize um the student Le worship uh throughout the week and making sure all the ab stuff was set up for them and uh all that kind of stuff but yeah again Johnny’s personal investment in me is one of the reasons why I am who I am today so uh yeah again personal relationship I think is a a huge huge uh part of what was invested in me and uh just personal discipleship making sure that I um you know was growing uh was a huge thing that I just thank Johnny for to this day and the internship at Vista uh yeah internship of Vista was offered through another connection at the Bible College um I had known uh the guy who was one of the youth pastors at the time uh and I joined as the uh youth student youth worship director um and I was there for uh seven months as an internship and had an absolute blast um there not without its challenges but uh really got to invest um in the youth and in the youth worship culture there um as well as serving just in the worship team at the church um for even the main service but uh yeah getting to to sh SE and then really to pour into youth students who now um currently I believe at at Calvary Vista it’s all student L worship and it’s cool to just see those kids pick up the ball and run with it yeah absolutely um and you you hosted a prayer group at the Bible College correct correct um yeah uh I was yeah I don’t know how I can go through it really quickly in 2019 um at the end of 2019 I had the opportunity to go on a mission trip to uh India and Nepal uh or Nepal and then India consecutively um and that trip just really changed my life had a a powerful encounter in Nepal where um me and two of my best friends and my dad uh along with our missionary friends we got to watch God miraculously heal a paralyzed guy I watched him walk out of a wheelchair which is this day one of the craziest thing that’s ever happened to me and then uh watched him proceed to burn his Hindu Idol beads and give his life to Jesus which was incredible um and then um on the back half of that trip we were in India visiting a Indian pastor friend and he just prays more than any human being that I know we would pray for one hour every single night um no matter what time we got back um and our amyan pastor friend he’s been doing that since he was my age um and he was just convicted by that verse um I forget which gospel it’s in where Jesus asks his disciples can you not even pray for one hour so he’s been praying for one one dedicated hour uh every day uh since um he was in his early 20s and so I was really impacted by that trip and so coming back from that I had started a group um when I was at Baba College where we were just we we’re in the our little prayer Chapel at the Bible College and we’re praying from 9: to 10 every night uh six nights a week and yeah to this day um one of the most uh I’m most honored of anything that I’ve ever LED worship and all that kind of stuff I’m most honored by um and most um satisfied and uh fulfilled I feel like um when I’m leading prayer and that that group in particular will always hold a special place in my heart um nothing overly spiritual or overly um cool about what we were doing we were just say hey we’re gonna pray from 9 to 10 and we just did that for hundreds of nights which was really crooky and awesome so yeah that is really awesome um so tell me about your current situation uh yeah so um yeah another total God uh opportunity stuff had uh opportunity and um some other job stuff had made stuff a little difficult at my previous um employer just needing to um move and uh so I was praying through that and then God opened a door uh via a friend uh up here in the Central Coast in guon um yeah total God thing happened really really quickly uh was came up and interviewed and in December of 2023 and led worship here and then uh came and moved up to be the worship director at uh Crossroads Church in Buon California which uh is an Assemblies of God Church which is interesting for me I’m just moving into a new new denominational structure which a lot of our conversations have been about that so currently pursuing um the first level of their um certification ordination program uh which was they they refer to it as certification I believe and so pursuing that and then yeah uh my job currently consists of shepher the worship team and the worship culture at our campus in Buon we’re multicampus church so I’m responsible for the worship at the main campus the guon campus and so um yeah just uh sheering trying to love it’s early days here um for me at the church so not trying to change much but wanting to love and Shepherd um people well love them like Jesus before uh you know before we change a bunch of stuff but yeah just uh wanting to Faithfully lead God’s people in worship and um yeah it’s been a it’s been a wild ride lots of learning even really quickly this is my first real opportunity to be the the lead guy in a in a specific Ministry capacity um not that I’m the lead guy at the church but just I have pretty much the full um sheering responsibility for the worship team which is an absolute blast and honor um and the team is really awesome here so getting to step into a opportunity that many would uh be uh maybe envious of which uh is a blessing for me for sure um why do you think it’s important to love people well before you go in and try to change stuff yeah I mean I think the old the classic adage is s that people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care you know and so um you know as much as I try to stay away from uh generic Christian Jingles there’s usually not much wisdom in them I think there is some and they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care and um really I I’m con I’m convinced that my my first even before the congregation the the people that God’s put in front of me to love um is the worship B and um so I want to just be the hands and feet of face the hands and feet and face of Jesus to the person who’s in front of me I think that that’s the essence of the Christian Life um at its most simplest um is to be Jesus or to to represent Jesus um to the person who’s in front of you uh whether that’s uh your best friend or that’s the homeless person that you’re inter acting with or it’s a member from your congregation or it’s somebody from your worship team and so um you just want to love the people who are in front of you because I’m convinced that that’s what Jesus does um so how do you do that how do you love the person in front of you how do you Shepherd those who are on your worship team yeah I think a huge thing for me and um like was mentioned before that that trip and and specifically the focus on prayer that that mission trip had for me was super impactful so um really simple things like uh doing work to memorize names I know that that’s something that’s been difficult for me and it’s difficult for a lot of people but really putting in the effort to memorize names the first time um and then I uh make sure that those guys get on a prayer list that I don’t just say I’m gonna pray for them um and then genuinely asking hey what can I pray for you man what can I be investing in your life um how can I help you grow um making sure that you’re available um to those people but a big one for me is a big one for me is prayer um just making sure that uh they’re not only on your minds on Sunday morning or when you’re building a worship set or you’re building teams um but that they’re on your mind as people that you care about not people that help you accomplish your mission you know I want to lead good worship um so I do care about that and I think about that but the first thing that I want to care about is how do I um how do I care for them so yeah just being available and knowing what’s going on and um knowing what’s going on in your band’s life um and I’m still working on that I’m not perfect at that certainly big uh big mistakes all the time but there’s Grace for that and so yeah just wanting to be investing um not just in my Ministry but in their life for sure so what are some of the ways that Bible College specifically has prepared you for this role are there any classes that you took that have really helped you or or maybe some habits that you were able to develop um yeah well I would say for sure um as said before I was heavily impacted by the discipleship of uh Johnny zachiel I think I learned a lot of good information and classes um but being invested in by people um not just Johnny I mean many um many worship leaders uh in Bible College and many teachers in Bible College um just investing time teaching me the Practical ins and outs of uh worship Ministry and leading people ways to think about things um whether that’s practical things like uh keys and key changes and transitions or um spiritual things about how to lead and Shepherd people how to listen to the Holy Spirit um in the midst of a worship set um a lot of that comes from personal experience which I do think comes from uh personal investment which I do think comes from Bible College um just because you’re in a place where you can do that um you get a lot of people who are gifted in one area um but certainly uh learned a lot of uh I think I think that theology is profoundly practical and so uh good good um Orthodoxy is pretty pretty worthless if it doesn’t come with good orthopraxy and so I think that um for me uh being at bible college was extremely helpful for me to get a as um as basic as it sounds a good biblical Foundation um for worship Ministry um and just Ministry in general um was extremely extremely helpful yeah absolutely um are there any ways that the internships that you took were able to to prepare you for this well yeah totally uh being able to make Ministry um Ministry uh practical and real is and I think uh one of the big things that happens at bible college is there’s lots of idealistic young Christians and God wants to use the Zeal of young Christians but uh as my dad says it um you know or as the great Theologian I’ll say this as as the great Theologian Mike Tyson says everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face and so I think that it’s when you do internships or you’re really in Ministry a lot of the theoretical ideas that you have might not work quite as well as you think that they will when you’re in Bible College and so it’s helpful just to to get into it because the things that you think are important when you’re in Bible College you get into real life and you realize that people are less concerned about eschatology or your opinion on um any number of theological topics that you argue out argue about at bible college um they just really want to know do you care about me do you love me um and can you help Shepherd me towards Jesus um and so I think that the internships helped me with that realize what’s important what’s not important absolutely so what are some of the lessons you’ve learned in in learning to love people well uh I think for me is uh it’s a lesson that many have needed um but me more than most is uh be quick to listen slow to speak and slow to become angry uh like I said I think that I can be um I can be idealistic and was idealistic um thinking that I knew a lot um of information uh and realizing that there are people who have had much more experience and not to say that I don’t have anything to bring to the table but I just need to God gave me one mouth in two years because I should listen about twice as much as I speak and uh I find myself and have found myself over the course of my early years in Ministry sticking my foot in my mouth over and over and over and just realizing that um you know even a fool is thought wise as he keeps his mouth shut so uh just being uh humble enough humble enough to to realize that I don’t have it all together I don’t have it figured out and that it’s totally okay like it’s totally okay um but I maybe would have saved myself uh a little bit of um a little bit of hurt a little bit of struggle if I had been a little bit more quiet for sure uh can you tell me about some of the successes in loving people well or some of the successes you’ve had in discipleship that have taught you some good lessons yeah um yeah so many um I think that one of the we can get caught up I think that the church has the and I’m not hating on anyone in particular or any I’m not really hating at all I think sometimes we can get caught up in strategizing um I I can think of individuals specific when I’m thinking about this sometimes it’s easy to to try to cast a wide net to catch as many uh fish as possible which I I totally get but sometimes I think that we just that God has a heart for whatever we can do to find one instead of how can we get our resources all lined up so that we can reach as many as possible I think that’s one of the gifts of the um kind of that the gift that Christ has given to the Church in the office of the Evangelist I wouldn’t consider myself an evangelist but uh evangelists are quite often those who will do anything to reach the one rather than those who will those who will try to organize the resources to reach as many as possible and I think that there’s room in the body and necessity in the body for both of those gifts um but just realizing that there’s a real pressure um I think in and maybe in gen Z especially that everybody wants to change the world uh especially Christians in gen Z they want to change the world they want to have Revival and and I I want that too um at most times but uh I’m struck by the words of Paul the Apostle when he says that we should desire to live a quiet Life unstained by the world and um I think that just being faithful in the day-to-day of whatever God’s put in front of you uh is I think that that often is the most faithful thing to do not to look to change the world um because there come can come so much pressure um with that um anxiety stress about um not fulfilling what God’s called you to do and um if you just accept that where you are um God knew that you were going to be there and God wants you to Faithfully serve him right there that can really um lift a weight and a burden off of your shoulders um so I would say that that’s a huge lesson um that I’ve learned uh yeah oh my goodness I can think of uh so many so many people where I’m just so grateful that I know that one person person not that I got to lead worship for hundreds of people or got to lead worship at a big summer camp but the things that I carry in my heart are the individuals um who I’ve loved the individuals who have come to me and said hey man you’re whatever this little thing that you’ve done this really impacted me those are the things that I carry with me not the the big things um or what maybe at when I first started ministry I thought were the goals of getting to lead worship that summer camps or uh finally getting to to be the lead guy somewhere it’s all the it’s all the individuals which I think is a a big lesson for me in Ministry definitely so what does it look like for you very practically to be faithful in the day today yeah man I think that this goes back to um maybe one of your previous questions too I think that um part of faithfulness for me would be being with Jesus I think that what I wish that I would have done better in baral college is establish a habit of being in the word daily um being in the Scriptures Daily I know um I’m probably worse than most most people at bible college that’s where they nail that down and even in Bible College I I did a lot of that um but even now in Ministry I just realized how easy it is and even um even as a single guy I know they’ll get more even more difficult with a wife and kids someday but you know getting up and getting in the word and getting to hear from God um it’s so absolutely essential um to Leading but just to being able to get through the day um Faithfully um is getting the word I think that that’s part of a huge part of walking out Faithfully another thing that I find extremely important is having uh people who you can be brutally honest with and confess with I think one of the big weaknesses that I see um in the uh I think I see it in all in all Christian circles is a lack or maybe at least the Christian circles that I’ve been a part of is a lack of confession um as a as a spiritual practice for our formation as Christians um I I know a lot of my Frost and Friends make fun of uh Catholics for having a confession Booth but I don’t know many of my friends who make a regular practice of confessing their sins to somebody and that’s been huge for me as a young man um being able to confess my faults to uh a close brother and knowing that there’s not a that he believes best for me and wants the best for me um and that uh it’s in the confession of our sins that we’re healed um as it would say in James I think that there’s a a danger I remember being in Bible College and not wanting not wanting to confess because I thought that it would be like devastating to confess my failure I’m in Bible College um but looking back now as a 24-year-old looking back at my 17-year-old self I wish I would have done it more I wish I would have held back less because there would have been even more healing um for my heart and my soul back then um and uh just walking out a a lifestyle of confession and repentance confession and repentance confession and repentance I think that that’s a huge practical thing that we need to walk out yeah yeah absolutely um can you tell me about some of the failures you’ve had in loving people well um either in Bible College the internships or your current setting oh man how much time do you got uh oh yeah failures um yeah uh Bible College I my third semester I took over as a I’ll tell this story my one of my very good friends uh Solomon he was one of the guys in my dorm room I was a dorm Steward which is basically just like a ra but for a one room and uh we were responsible for doing like dorm cleaning every week making sure our dorm was clean and uh I was a pretty terrible leader back then and uh I just remember like making sure that we’re going to pass dorm cleaning and um and I remember asking everybody if they’ uh like to help do their stuff and my my good friend Solomon said I am not doing my job until you do yours because I hadn’t done my job in probably three weeks and it was just such a shocking and jarring thing it’s like hey you got to be being faithful to Jesus to help lead other people in being faithful to Jesus and not that you have to be perfect but I was definitely at the time being unfaithful and it was kind of a shocking thing for me and I was like oh man I realized immediately like Zach you are a terrible leader you have been leading these people terrible and uh me and solman even joke about that to this day that the him calling me out uh made me a better leader that’s a really simple one um some of the later ones uh have been maybe a little bit harder and you know maybe I think assuming assuming what’s going on in people’s hearts and heads is a real danger um for me and for many others um you know it’s easier to just be humble and ask the question rather than assuming that you know what’s going on um so many times I’ve hurt uh I I have hurt other people by assuming what’s going on making decisions and then them coming and saying hey what happened um what’s going on with this and me being like well I thought that you and that just caused a lot of hurt in relationships that I have had to um confess repent um and do the work trying to amend those relationships MH what are what are some examples of that yeah what happened um it happens uh it can happen a lot in worship Ministry uh for example um as a young guy um scheduling uh scheduling worship teams uh make assumptions about people’s lives I remember I assumed about a mom who had just given birth um I had made the assumption that she would probably need some time off it well intentioned I wanted to give her um some time off and uh didn’t schedule her for quite a while and then uh was approached by um her saying that she was very offended because she would she wanted to be on like she wanted to get back into the worship rotation but she hadn’t been scheduled and nobody had talked to her about it and me realizing that I thought that I knew it was best and rather than making a simple simple text message um asking hey when do you want to be back on the schedule that would be so easy right and thinking about that you’re like why would you not do that Zach and uh uh just assuming that I knew what was best or right in a situation rather than U making a quick text or a quick phone call um similar situations like that when it comes to scheduling um people or or onboarding people onto a worship Ministry yeah definitely um um what is some advice You’ give to someone who’s also discipling people as a young adult yeah I’m totally growing in this area I’m responsible for leading our young adults ministry here at Crossroads um that’s still really early days for me so we’re still figuring it out um yeah I think um just teaching people um the basics of being with Jesus um the value of I think a there’s a lot of a lot of Christian Ministry ideas and I’m not picking on anyone in particular I think there’s a lot of uh systems and um ways that people try to get plugged in I’ve never been super bought into a vent driven Ministry I think that the kind of people um that God wants us to be are people who are with him and with others who love him be with Jesus and then be with the people of Jesus and so I I I try to form a lot of my discipleship the people that I’m pouring into um around that uh I don’t I’m not a big fan of the big events that draw a bunch of people I just do what we want to do what God wants uh what we feel like God wants us to do and then those people who want to be on board um can come and be on board and uh I think that’s not maybe a super popular um idea um these days but um I think that there’s a real draw um in the Gen z um that they just want something real and authentic and they don’t want smoke and lights and bunch of fancy stuff um they just want to be with people who they know care about them and so I try to form uh the ways that we’re discipling people um in the young adults around that um being faithful to be in the word be faithful to be uh with Jesus in prayer and then to be with others with uh good food and good drinks and hanging out yeah what what has it been like uh being involved with the young adults so far oh it’s been a blast we’re still figuring it out um I I was never planning on being the young adult uh person anywhere but I do um have I do really enjoy um I’m really enjoying it we’re going through um the 247 prayer movements prayer course they have three courses and so we’re just watching those videos and then uh talking about it and then really praying um my my biggest pet peeve in the world is prayer meetings where the prayer requests take longer than the prayer meeting itself and so so uh we just get together and uh we eat pizza and uh watch uh watch a little video and then just take time to invest there’s a lot of time outside of the video time where we’re just hanging and talking and really uh trying to build relationships here in the early days again uh wanting to to make sure that people know that they’re loved and can uh come to me and to other leaders uh with anything um before we are trying to divulge all of the quote unquote wisdom or teaching that we have you know so I just wanted to make sure that uh again that we’re loving people first absolutely to you what what should a prayer meeting look like well that’s a good question I I think that there’s no there’s no right or wrong way I think that prayer very simply is uh communing with Jesus and so that looks different for a lot of people I think that that’s been one of my favorite things getting into the whole um prayer meeting prayer movement scene um I think that there can be some dangers of some overs spiritualization um but prayer very simply is talking to Jesus and talking to God so um we I I have a personal uh way that I have done it in the past but I’ve been a part of many different prayer meetings that look many different ways I think the important thing is that you set aside time for Jesus it doesn’t matter how much if it’s 5 10 15 minutes or if it’s an hour or if it’s a week um whatever your group of people who are gathering to pray set aside some time and then just go for it talk to God about whatever’s on your heart don’t hold back um don’t plan your prayers don’t that was the real Temptation for me early on is you know W my prayer in my head before I say them just pray just give God what you got um keep it honest um yeah and keep it up those are some good pieces of advice yeah so with that in mind um what did what did the prayer meetings look like that you were able to host yeah um we our our dedication um and our the like I said before the in insation from Jesus’s words to his disciples can you not even pray for one hour um we were just going to set aside one hour um generally it was from 9 to 10 p.m. in our little prayer Chapel at the Bible College and we would just start at 9: um we would I would kind of pray a little bit of an opening prayer um kind of three of the guidelines that we had given was uh that we don’t want to be afraid of the empty space um it says in ecclesiast that uh God is in heaven and we’re not so let your Words Be Few and so one of our guidelines was that don’t feel like you have to fill the empty space uh because prayer is a two-way street where God uh wants to talk to and if we’re talking the whole time he can’t respond he can’t speak to us because we’re busy interrupting him and so uh that was one and then another one was uh pray like you’re on a mission and not like you’re wandering through the desert I think we’ve all been a part of prayer meetings prayer times where uh uh or corporate prayer meetings or prayer times where 15 minutes of the hour are hijacked by one person praying a very long drawn out prayer I never stopped anybody from praying but just uh s just wanting to communicate that we want to honor everybody’s time so if you have a thing that God wants you to pray for pray for that thing and then uh say Amen you know and let somebody else pray for something on their heart because um often God is working in all the people’s hearts towards a certain specific thing or uh you we can feel the spirit moving in a certain way so just pray like you’re on a mission and not like you’re wandering through the through the desert and then we were just really open to what God wanted to speak um uh through the his gifts the gifts of the Spirit um and so I never wanted people to be afraid to try um to use if they felt like God was doing something especially in a in a environment like Bible College where some people weren’t as familiar um with that if they felt like I was speaking to them wanted there to be freedom to um to step out in faith and maybe mess up maybe it wasn’t God and to we can do that really humbly um and so just giving an opportunity to say hey if you feel like God’s speaking um just humbly put that out and say hey man I think that maybe God’s speaking or maybe this is a vision from God that I’m getting or um I have a I think that I have a word from God and I I just want to put that before you guys to test it that kind of thing so those were kind of our three guidelines and then um I just we I’d open and then we’d pray popcorn style uh classic prayer meeting anybody can pray um and then after about an hour we would always close by praying The Lord’s Prayer and then we were done and uh sometimes those prayer meetings were a lot of Silence which was really awesome and then some of those prayer meetings would go all the way until curfew because we just felt the presence of God and didn’t want to leave the room definitely and and bible college is such a sweet place to be able to um practice the gifts of the Spirit um because you’re you’re amongst brothers and sisters who who love you and are willing to correct you in love if that’s what you need um so that’s that’s really awesome um what do you mean by um not filling the the empty space yeah like I said before um I think there’s uh we we want to make sure that we’re giving room for God to speak and not just to have our prayer time be throwing our laundry list of requests to God we um as said before that passage in Ezekiel or not in Ecclesiastes um had had stuck out to me just because I thought it was funny that God’s in heaven and we’re not so let’s your words before God you we’re so tempted to to spend the vast majority of our prayer time talking and speaking often times If we’re honest at God rather than to him and so we just wanted there to be space for God to talk that the world and especially the West is so full of noise uh so full of visual noise and verbal noise and advertisements and Instagram and all sorts of uh just cacophony of everything wanting to get your attention and so of often times it can be very uncomfortable for us to just be quiet before God just to be listening not to be praying in our head not to be praying out loud but just to be paying attention to the Stillness and to what the Lord is saying in the quiet place I’m even I’m reminded now of um in the in the book of in the Kings and I I think it’s in First Kings uh when Elijah he’s on the mountain and and the fire comes and the Lord wasn’t in the fire and the earthquake comes and the Lord wasn’t in the earthquake and there was a strong wind and the the Lord wasn’t in the strong wind but then the Lord was in the still Small Voice and so often times we can want God to come uh like fire and sometimes he does and sometimes to come like a strong wind or an earthquake and he does sometimes but I think most often uh the Lord comes uh in the still Small Voice and a lot of the times we’re just too busy talking to hear him for sure I know that uh also at bible college there are a lot of theological conversations like what you were talking about um Do You Really Ever see things like that come up in your current situation that’s a good question um yeah I think that the the the Bible College U the Bible College tropes um that I can think of even off the top of my head that are beat like a dead beat like a dead horse are the um women in Ministry Man’s Free Will versus God’s predestination uh spiritual gifts um continuationism versus sism I think that those uh three I’m sure that there are some that I’m forgetting even now uh people just tend to argue about those um in Bible College and I have seen in my very limited uh experience post Bible College uh maybe four four years but there’s not much of that that’s really important um if I’m going to be honest I think that it’s important to have opinions on those um as a practitioner um I think that uh like I said nobody’s ever accused me of being short of opinions um but I’m finding that sharing my opinions is much less important um than I used to think uh so I think that uh those conversations are less important than Bible College would make SE I think it’s important to have those opinions and and to have well-formed theologically astute opinions um uh because good Orthodoxy um is important but only as much as it leads to orthopraxy and so uh I want to um I want my theology to be uh practical and not just theoretical um I think that first John would give um it’s a good example for this and where it says that uh if you claim to have the love of God in you yet you hate your brother then the love of God is not in you and uh I think that often times we can have theological arguments and not see the people in front of us and so I don’t think that those are as important as we make them out to be um nobody’s ever asked me in my Ministry what my opinion on women in Ministry was or uh what how to figure out Man’s Free Will versus the predestination of God um they just want to know uh the love of God and so I want to be uh the hands and feet face of Jesus to them yeah and I’m sure you would agree like it says in James even the demons have good Orthodoxy but they don’t have good Orthodoxy yeah absolutely MH so throughout your time in Bible College um and your time working at a church what has self-care looked like for you I know that you mentioned um just being in the word being in prayer living with uh other believers um what have those habits looked like for you how have you seen growth from them yeah I think that the the extreme struggle even for me these days is to make sure that I get up and get in the word um as as funny as it sounds it seems like that would be the thing that you major in um but that often can go by the wayside when you think other things are important so yeah I I can see uh growth in myself where I I’ll go back through the Bible and simple things like being like Oh I didn’t even know that I had that memorized um but I’ve just been in the word and so I I I didn’t even know that I had those verses in there but by the grace of God they have been like downloaded into my brain and that I I see growth there I think that some of the self-care stuff I think that there has been a little bit of an overcorrection um with self-care if I’m going to be honest um I think that I think that there’s an importance to there’s been a lot of talk about Sabbath um in recent U recent years and I think that that is important but I think that that also has led to maybe a little bit of apathy and laziness um in uh younger people ESP especially um that maybe all the the fruit of that um that maybe it’s creating uh Christians who aren’t super uh what would the word uh resilient um and maybe a little bit of apathy and uh I don’t know give upness and so I want to be careful when it comes to self-care I do think that that’s important um but also God wants uh resilient Christians who push through uh what is hard at the same time um so I would say just making sure that uh really simply um that you’re eating well that you’re sleeping well um I think that the huge thing for me always has been um figuring out how to be off of social media be off of screens um all this all the studies coming out show that it’s pretty screen time is just terrible for you and so so um making sure that I have a healthy Rhythm and habit when it comes to uh my phone and computer and stuff like that absolutely um what’s some advice you give to people starting out um maybe not even starting out uh working in a Ministry but starting out all the way back uh in the beginning before Bible College anything that you would have wanted to tell yourself or uh tell someone to starting there yeah I would for sure I would say uh fall in love with the scriptures yeah it here at our church in Crossroads we talk about the fact that it’s all about Jesus and um one of our the taglines that we’ll say is it’s all about Jesus and it um and you don’t have to look any further than the scriptures to find the person of Jesus Colossians would say that Jesus is the image of the the invisible God and so we if we look to Jesus we look to the word um the word capital W um will be found in the word of God the scriptures and so uh just look to the scriptures fall in love with those scriptures because uh scriptures are going to make you fall in love with Jesus um but then should always be pursuing Jesus um like I said before you you can also search the scriptures and Miss Jesus um because the Pharisees did that so make sure that you’re developing a personal relationship with Jesus Through um through prayer um I I’m a big fan of the spiritual disciplines um but especially through a personal prayer relationship with Jesus I’d say at bible college get get some Community around you especially older community um and I would encourage people to go find older faithful godly people at churches and ask those people to pour into you and let those people be uh your sounding board for your ideas rather than your other 19-year-old uh friend who has it all figured out right just like you and so uh that was me it’s just I thought that I had everything figured out and I wanted to talk to other 19-year-olds who thought they all had it figured out um so go get some older Christians around you to pour into you to have those who have wisdom uh to pour into you and to confess your sins to um that’s a huge thing for me and then and then honestly to have Grace with yourself um I think that uh God has given the younger generation Zeal always um because because every Young Generation has Zeal and God wants to use that Zeal so don’t uh don’t be too hard on yourself when you want to push the ball forward and uh maybe some other people uh don’t want to push it quite as fast um and then have Grace for your failures um because uh God has infinitely more grace for our failures than we do and so it’s easy to be discouraged many times of discouragement and questioning my calling and but just uh be to have some Grace for yourself in the midst of all that yeah well I don’t have any more questions do you have anything else you’d like to say uh no I um yeah just uh um you know Jesus is the absolute as ironic as it or as um not as ironic as cliche as cliche as it is Jesus is the most important thing um Jesus is much more important than Ministry and I think that I have lost that I’ve lost the plot on that many times uh so get Jesus and then have him add everything else unto you seek the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you uh so seek Jesus and uh generally he works the rest out yeah well thank you very much Zach this was a great interview thank you yeah thank you Q as well